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Post by portence on Apr 10, 2012 14:25:32 GMT -5
Here is a link I found on the forums when I was looking up some numbers on different bows to use in shround and other raids. forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=367608&highlight=silver+bowI don't know if that will link but you should be able to cut and paste it to read the content. Several of the people comment on how the silver bow is not silver and need silver arrows to truely bypass the DR of Harry in shroud. I have the bow on my ranger and it does ok damage. I need to run shroud again and test with summoned +5 arrows vs the house D silver arrows. I am not a number cruncher but it looks the projectile needs to pass the DR when it comes to a damage resistance that is related to the material a weapon is made of. Since it is not the bow that is hitting the mob but the arrow is. The arrow then must be of the proper material. The bow is able to imbue the arrow with good but can not make the arrow silver. I bought a couple of thousand silver arrows and will try them in my next shroud with my ranger.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 17:03:54 GMT -5
makes sense port since the arrows are what hit him not the bow itself
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Post by cystine on Apr 10, 2012 18:02:29 GMT -5
That post is about the " Silver Longbow" which is an end reward from Church and Cult. That particular bow is Named Silver, is Made of Silver, but lacks the "Silver, Alchemical" attribute. It does Pierce, Good, and Magic damage only. Most of us in the Shroud raids are either using the Bow of the Silver Flame, or the Silver Slinger. Both of these are from the new Lords of Dust quests (U13). Both of them have the "Silver, Alchemical" attribute thus breaking Harry's DR.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 0:44:24 GMT -5
I looked at the link and agree with Siiiiiiiistah... The Silver Longbow is a good bow for lower levels and well worth keeping, but not for use in Shroud. I have a couple silver bows - for my 2 lower level AAs. It's a fine bow but not in the same category as the Bow of the Silver Flame. It's attributes are Pierce, Good and Magic. Send me to Delera's with it - let 'em fly and watch the damage. The Bow of the Silver Flame's attributes are Pierce, Bludgeon, Good, Silver and Magic. No need for those silver arrows I bought tonight either. +5 Arcane imbued with Slayer is next to impossible to top. Silver goes with the bow in this case. This bow has become my primary bow in the high level quests as it's the best all round bow I've found. Speaking of which, Sheeesh needs to go get her own Bow of the Silver Flame. I've run those quests with her once, but didn't get the Bow. Next time, of course. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 10:06:55 GMT -5
There is no need to use "silver" ranged weapons in shroud. As long as they have holy, you can just load silver ammo that is freely available from deneith vendor. GS Lit II, Min II or 3xPos work very good.
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Post by Synica on Apr 11, 2012 10:20:20 GMT -5
yeah, you could load silver ammo and wait for the lit 2 bow to proc which it does, I used mine in shroud, but as soon as it was time for Harry I switched to the bow of the silver flame . . . no reason an AA needs to buy arrows of any type if you have the right bow for the DR. Bow of the silver flame/silver slinger gets through Harry's DR. With conjured arrows using slaying imbue, I always proc left and right against Big Red.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 10:26:17 GMT -5
The point is, silver slinger and bow of silver flame are "only" +4. GS is +5 and has 3 tiers of extra dmg effect. And imbue works with any arrows, so why not have this plus Lit II? Arrows aren't very expensive, it's worth the extra dmg in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 13:18:10 GMT -5
The point is, silver slinger and bow of silver flame are "only" +4. GS is +5 and has 3 tiers of extra dmg effect. And imbue works with any arrows, so why not have this plus Lit II? Arrows aren't very expensive, it's worth the extra dmg in my opinion. My greensteel bow is all acid. Try using triple acid on harry and see where it gets you. We're talking about the Bow of the Silver Flame and the damage it does against Harry. It's redundant for an AA to buy and carry arrows when we summon 100 +5 returning arrows and use many shot as often as possible. A +5 arcane imbued with slayer arrow does as more damage than a silver arrow, especially when the bow has the silver attribute. If you were an AA, you would understand this.
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Post by Synica on Apr 11, 2012 13:20:58 GMT -5
if you are a non AA that argument is true, but I specifically stated from an AA standpoint which makes MY point. As an AA that has used BOTH in shroud (just last night) the Silver flame bow was doing more damage because my arrows i make are +5 . . .and only need to wait for my arrows to proc with slaying arrows every couple of hits and get the silver usage as well. Rather than spend my money on arrows (main reason I became an AA . . the imbue was an added bonus I found out). I used both last night, on harry . . silver was doing more damage.
Make an AA, check for yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 21:39:57 GMT -5
Unbelievable, I just have to crow a little. Today, we decided to farm for the Silver Slinger xbow for Abby, and I wanted that Bow of the Silver Flame for Sheesh. Five minutes into the quest, a chest dropped the bow for me. I was elated. Abby got her xbow at the end of the quest and another BoSF dropped for Syn. She gave it to me for Knicknack. I am elated that all three of my AA's have that bow, even if Knick has to wait a few levels to use it. Thank you Abby, Syn, Hauboo, and Walliii for making me a very happy ranger-girl today.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 1:25:10 GMT -5
@meemau:
I can't imagine someone trying that. I specifically stated Lit II, Min II and 3xPos as examples of Greensteel that have holy to bypass pit fiend DR. I'm not an AA, but arrows and bows mechanic is the same for everyone - "plus" value of arrows and bow doesn't stack -> using summoned +5 with +5 weapon (GS) will do no difference over silver +0. I personally go into quests with 1k "summoned" fire bolts to save regular ammo, but use silver when dealing with boss, because my repeater eats on breakfast every non-epic equivalent in game. Unless my math is broke, and Bow of Silver Flame (1d8+4, Holy burst) does more damage than Greensteel Longbow 3xPos (1d10+5, Holy, Good Burst, Good Blast). same for Lit II (1d10+5, Holy, Shock burst, Shock Blast). Well, Min II will fall behind due to being acid based, but don't need silver bolts. Let's leave the Silver Slinger and Bow of Silver flame where they belong - slaying undead. I will gladly give you 300pp to buy 1k of silver arrows for shroud.
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Post by Synica on Apr 12, 2012 1:58:02 GMT -5
I stated in my comments MY preference, why do you feel the need to continue to try and push your preference/way of thinking at me? I know what I saw during shroud. I have BOTH bows. Yes, the GS worked great through shroud, but when I got to Harry it seemed to *me* to do a better job. I used what worked for me. I'm level 20 and don't claim to know everything (I still have a lot of DDO to explore and learn) but please don't talk down to anyone like they are a child you must explain things to. We know values of arrows and bow/crossbows do not stack.
I understand your opinion, and I have my own. I'm happy to agree to disagree, and will continue to use what has worked for me so far.
You can use the 300pp for your next shroud round.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 3:37:10 GMT -5
@meemau: I can't imagine someone trying that. I specifically stated Lit II, Min II and 3xPos as examples of Greensteel that have holy to bypass pit fiend DR. I'm not an AA, but arrows and bows mechanic is the same for everyone - "plus" value of arrows and bow doesn't stack -> using summoned +5 with +5 weapon (GS) will do no difference over silver +0. <snip> Let's leave the Silver Slinger and Bow of Silver flame where they belong - slaying undead. I will gladly give you 300pp to buy 1k of silver arrows for shroud. I would like to know how you presume to know how to play a high level Arcane Archer and what weapons to use? So glad we have an expert AA here that pretends to be a warforged archmage wizard. I don't pretend to be intellectual or a number cruncher, but I do pretty well playing my AA's - all three of them. I find it interesting that you have never used summoned +5 arcane arrows nor imbued them with Slayer, nor have you built a greensteel longbow or used a Bow of the Silverflame. Still you have the audacity to tell an AA what weapons they can and can't use in a fight? And that I should stop and move my summoned arrows out of slot to replace them with a quiver full of silver arrows in the middle of the chaos of killing gnolls, devils, orthons and fighting Harry - because you think you know more about my bows and my arrows than I do? My level 20 AA has firsthand experience with both bows in and out of Shroud. You do not. No, bows and their mechanics are NOT the same for everyone. You may have numbers crunched and a lot of acronyms to scatter through your argument but you are forgetting build, feats and enhancements peculiar to an AA. This debate started over a friendly discussion between 3 AA's as to whether or not to buy silver arrows for the bow. All three of us bought silver arrows and used them in Shroud last night. This thread was an exchange of information for Arcane Archers using a bow that I doubt you've ever been able to equip and if you have, it would be with a spell or gear that gives you 1/10th the damage that an AA's bow does before it comes alive with many-shot. I did not say that I built my greensteel bow for Shroud, did I? I didn't know there was a rule that I had to. Or for any other purpose than to enjoy the game and my own accomplishments and those of others. I have fun, enjoy the hunt, and enjoy the gear I use and the people I quest with. I don't pretend to best. Or the smartest. That would only make me look stupid. "Let's leave the Silver Slinger and Bow of Silver flame where they belong - slaying undead. I will gladly give you 300pp to buy 1k of silver arrows for shroud."? This is nothing more than an uncalled for cheap shot.
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Post by cystine on Apr 12, 2012 10:05:04 GMT -5
As you pointed out, Bows and Ammo don't stack. So an AA using a +4 bow with +5 ammo is still +5. Imbued Slayer trumps Good Burst. Assuming someone wanted to invest all the mats into creating that 3x pos bow in the first place.
As an Arti, using a +4 repeater with +6 conjured bolts is +6.
Why would I want to use +3 silver bolts to break the DR of a pit fiend when I can use +6 bolts on a repeater that does so inherantly? The additional +3 damage PER BOLT is greater than the proc rate of a Lit II weapon.
Save your money. The group we run kills Harry in 1.25 rounds. We're content with playing the game how we want.
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Post by portence on Apr 12, 2012 12:51:41 GMT -5
The responses here make me a little sad and wish I had not posted this. My only intent was to get people to try out different combos for bows and or ammo to see what kind of damage they can generate. In the end we are all going to do what we think works best for us and the group anyways.
While it is good to share opinions and facts to help each other I do not think we should be flaming members on the guild forum. It just does not feel right to me. Please lets leave that to the flamers on the DDO forums.
I did try a shroud the other day and brought a couple of thousand house D silver arrows. When I got to part 4 switched over to the silver arrows. I just used summoned +5 up to that point. Things started to go badly in that particular run and I did not want to mess around with arrow switching so I just left silver going the rest of the raid so no real data on that.
I did however switch some bow use to see what i could get. I first thought the challenges bow...Epic Calomel Bow...would be good due to have tidal burst, crushing wave and corrosive salt. I was doing average damage and I was not really happy with the results. I tried the silver bow and again got average results. My biggest hitter was with the lightnig II greensteel bow. With all of them i was getting the 500hp proc from the slayer arrows over the silver. the lightning bow had a constant stream of 3 to 4 tiers of damage with each arrow. I will play with it some more but for what bows my ranger has this is the best for damaging harry.
As a side note...lit II kicks rear end in epic pharian carnival.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 14:07:38 GMT -5
Would you mind sharing how you built your GS bow, with a tier by tier description? Sheeesh is gearing up to start building her GS bow and I wouldn't mind a change. I built Whitetight's bow on the advise of a GS website. It's OK, and does some awesome stuff in regular play.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 17:15:52 GMT -5
Port since you feel you wish you didn't post this thread let me know if you want it gone or not because if you want i can erase it for you if you wanted. (was just waiting for a final yes or no before doing anything with it)
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Post by portence on Apr 13, 2012 7:13:42 GMT -5
You want to build it as
Tier 1 = Holy Tier 2 = Shock Tier 3 =Shock Extra shard at tier 3 will be holy but will not add that affect
Green steel bow ingredients
From the Vale Explorer Area and Vale Quests Collect 2 Bitterscrub Fungus 2 Chipmunk Funk 4 Energy Orb 3 Glistening Pebbles 2 Green Brier Twig 1 Lammanian Lily Petals 2 Locust Husk 1 Shavarath Stone of Battle 1 Shavarath Stone of Foresight 1 Shavarath Stone of Might 1 Shavarath Stone of Strategy 1 Shavarath Stone of Victory From Phase 1 of the Shroud Collect 1 Shard of Power 5 Shavarath Low Energy Cell 3 Small Devil Scales 2 Small Glowing Arrowhead 2 Small Gnawed Bone 1 Small Length of Infernal Chain 2 Small Sulfurous Stone 2 Small Twisted Shrapnel From Phase 2 and 3 of the Shroud Collect 2 Medium Devil Scales 2 Medium Glowing Arrowhead 2 Medium Gnawed Bone 1 Medium Length of Infernal Chain 2 Medium Sulfurous Stone 3 Medium Twisted Shrapnel 1 Shard of Great Power 5 Shavarath Medium Energy Cell From Phase 4 and 5 of the Shroud Collect 5 Large Devil Scales 4 Large Glowing Arrowhead 4 Large Gnawed Bone 2 Large Length of Infernal Chain 4 Large Sulfurous Stone 5 Large Twisted Shrapnel 2 Shard of Supreme Power 10 Shavarath High Energy Cell
Instructions
To Make Your:+5 Green Steel Longbow (1d10), Holy, 2d6 vs Evil , Shocking Burst, Shock Blast Chain Lightning (2/day) On-hit 2% chance, 580~650 electricity damage
At the Altar of Fecundity in Meridia
Make 1 Ore of Travail by combining Locust Husk, Chipmunk Funk, Glistening Pebbles, Green Brier Twig, and Energy Orb
Make 1 Shavarath Signet Stone by combining Shavarath Stone of Might, Shavarath Stone of Battle, Shavarath Stone of Strategy, Shavarath Stone of Foresight, and Shavarath Stone of Victory
Make 1 Wondrous Scarab by combining Chipmunk Funk, Glistening Pebbles, Bitterscrub Fungus, Lammanian Lily Petals, and Energy Orb
Make 1 Yellow Taper by combining Locust Husk, Glistening Pebbles, Bitterscrub Fungus, Green Brier Twig, and Energy Orb
Make 1 +5 Green Steel Longbow (1d10) by combining Energy Orb, Ore of Travail, Shavarath Signet Stone, Wondrous Scarab, Yellow Taper
At the Altar of Invasion in Phase 1 of the Shroud
Make 1 Cloudy Gem of Dominion by combining Small Gnawed Bone, Small Length of Infernal Chain, Small Devil Scales, Small Twisted Shrapnel, and Shavarath Low Energy Cell
Make 1 Diluted Material Essence by combining Small Glowing Arrowhead, Small Devil Scales, Small Twisted Shrapnel, Small Sulfurous Stone, and Shavarath Low Energy Cell
Make 1 Inferior Focus of Positive Energy by combining Small Glowing Arrowhead, Small Gnawed Bone, Small Devil Scales, Small Sulfurous Stone, and Shavarath Low Energy Cell
Make 1 Holy, 2d6 vs Evil - Positive/Dominion/Material by combining Cloudy Gem of Dominion, Diluted Material Essence, Inferior Focus of Positive Energy, Shard of Power, Shavarath Low Energy Cell
Upgrade your +5 Green Steel Longbow (1d10) by combining +5 Green Steel Longbow (1d10), Shavarath Low Energy Cell, and Imbued Shard of Power At the Altar of Subjugation in Phase 3 of the Shroud
Make 1 Focus of Air by combining Medium Glowing Arrowhead, Medium Gnawed Bone, Medium Sulfurous Stone, Medium Twisted Shrapnel, and Shavarath Medium Energy Cell
Make 1 Gem of Dominion by combining Medium Devil Scales, Medium Gnawed Bone, Medium Length of Infernal Chain, Medium Twisted Shrapnel, and Shavarath Medium Energy Cell
Make 1 Material Essence by combining Medium Devil Scales, Medium Glowing Arrowhead, Medium Sulfurous Stone, Medium Twisted Shrapnel, and Shavarath Medium Energy Cell
Make 1 Shocking Burst - Air/Dominion/Material by combining Focus of Air, Gem of Dominion, Material Essence, Shard of Great Power, Shavarath Medium Energy Cell
Upgrade your +5 Green Steel Longbow (1d10) by combining Tier 1 upgraded +5 Green Steel Longbow (1d10), Shavarath Medium Energy Cell, and Imbued Shard of Great Power At the Altar of Devastation in Phase 5 of the Shroud
Make 1 Flawless Gem of Dominion by combining Large Devil Scales, Shavarath High Energy Cell, Large Gnawed Bone, Large Length of Infernal Chain, and Large Twisted Shrapnel
Make 1 Pure Material Essence by combining Large Devil Scales, Shavarath High Energy Cell, Large Glowing Arrowhead, Large Sulfurous Stone, and Large Twisted Shrapnel
Make 1 Superior Focus of Positive Energy by combining Large Devil Scales, Shavarath High Energy Cell, Large Glowing Arrowhead, Large Gnawed Bone, and Large Sulfurous Stone
Make 1 Good Blast - Positive/Dominion/Material by combining Flawless Gem of Dominion, Pure Material Essence, Shard of Supreme Power, Shavarath High Energy Cell, Superior Focus of Positive Energy
At the Altar of Devastation in Phase 5 of the Shroud
Make 1 Flawless Gem of Dominion by combining Large Devil Scales, Shavarath High Energy Cell, Large Gnawed Bone, Large Length of Infernal Chain, and Large Twisted Shrapnel
Make 1 Pure Material Essence by combining Large Devil Scales, Shavarath High Energy Cell, Large Glowing Arrowhead, Large Sulfurous Stone, and Large Twisted Shrapnel
Make 1 Superior Focus of Air by combining Shavarath High Energy Cell, Large Glowing Arrowhead, Large Gnawed Bone, Large Sulfurous Stone, and Large Twisted Shrapnel
Make 1 Shock Blast - Air/Dominion/Material by combining Flawless Gem of Dominion, Pure Material Essence, Shard of Supreme Power, Shavarath High Energy Cell, Superior Focus of Air
Make 1 Double Imbued Shard of Supreme Power ( Aspect of Lightning II / Shock Blast ) by combining Shavarath High Energy Cell, 1 Air/Dominion/Material Imbued Shard of Supreme Power, and 1 Positive/Dominion/Material Imbued Shard of Supreme Power
Upgrade your +5 Green Steel Longbow (1d10) by combining Tier 2 upgraded +5 Green Steel Longbow (1d10), Shavarath High Energy Cell, and Double Imbued Shard of Supreme Power ( Aspect of Lightning II / Shock Blast )
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 9:42:28 GMT -5
Thanks! When I posted it, I didn't expect you to go through all that trouble. But, that's awesome. I'll copy and paste it to a file - then go thru bags to find out what I have to farm.
You're the best, Port.
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